From addiction to servitude

Mario and Wayne sit down with Melanie Chroninger where melanie tells her story from being homeless to serving Idaho's citizens through their addiction.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Reformed and Real, where we take a journey with our people fresh out of prison and in recovery, and we try to see how the community around them really feels. My name is Mario Hernandez, one of the afflicted people that get out of incarceration, and we're here to try to figure out how this looks.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

I'm Wayne Burr, curious onlooker who wants to get to know the stories beyond the stigma of incarceration, because like Mario, I believe all the stories count. They do. Same answer every day, right? Every week? They continue to count.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

We come in here with We have guests that uh reaffirm that they count. They absolutely do. Uh today we got a special guest. Her name's Melanie Kroninger. Uh Melanie, welcome.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hi, thank you. Thank you for having me on.

SPEAKER_01 0:43

Oh, yeah, you're welcome. Uh so tell us a little bit about yourself. Uh uh, maybe just a little hit brief history of why you're here.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Yes, I can give you uh the uh quick version, I guess. Um we got an opportunity to meet when I called you looking for resources. Um I am currently an intern at a treatment facility in NAMPA. Um I am working on my master's in social work at NNU. And um I could just see the need of people who are who are trying to um change their lives that um are just really up against systems that aren't for them. Um in my uh professional life, what I currently do is I am the drug overdose prevention program coordinator for Southwest District Health. Um our district serves uh Adams, Washington, Payette, Jim, Canyon, and Owahe counties. So I've been currently in that position almost four years, and I love it so much, but I definitely can see the need for um clinicians in our rural communities. And so I'm making the switch from public health to social work.

SPEAKER_01 1:52

Awesome, awesome. That's that's a big district to take care of, first of all. Huge coverage area. How busy are you?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Uh well, the goal would be to work myself out of a job.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

You know what? That's my goal too. That's funny. It's funny you should say that. Well, what do you know? That makes three of us. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So uh Melanie, uh, one of the other things that we've talked about, and uh, you know, we don't have to dig into weeds too far, but you also have a background in your past like I do. Um uh you're in recovery, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:22

That is correct. Oh yeah, and I like getting in the weeds, like going down the rabbit holes.

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Yeah, me too.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

I'm a data nerd. I'll share all day long on um recovery and anything related to that. But yes, I have been sober um since November 21st of 2005. And so thanks, you guys. What a great strat. I know. And so yeah, this year I'll have 21 years sober. My my sobriety will be able to drink. No, I'm just kidding. Um but yeah, I I got sober. I hit a bottom sufficient enough to bring about recovery when I was 25 years old. And um, it was it was enough and I've been sober ever since.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

So yeah, one of the things that we talk about a lot is the uh, you know, when we're in this uh, I don't want to call it a business, but when there's world that we're in, right, where we're serving people that um, you know, you've been there, right?

SPEAKER_02 3:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

So you you you probably recognize a lot of people just the look in their eyes when they come in to see you and when you talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Absolutely. Yeah, there's just uh no light, there's no hope, nothing's funny anymore. Everything's hard, all their piles of problem, you know, problems have piled up on them. And um, yeah, it's just I understand what it's like. When I got into recovery, um, the first suggestion I ever took was from my lawyer who said get into treatment. Because unfortunately, um, and the joke, the joke, this is a joke, just you know, and this is 20 years ago, just saying everything has been taken care of and completed, and I'm a useful member of society. But uh, my dad always jokes that the uh crime rate went down in Orange County when I got sober because I was a one-woman crime syndicate basically.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

It's a joke. That's hilarious, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

And so um, yeah, no, I I got into treatment because I was and was justice involved. I was unhoused living out of my car um for two years, and it was really dark. It was a really dark time.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

When did the period of uh addiction begin? How old were you?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I was 12 years old. Yes. And what's interesting is, you know, with with all my education and everything that I've been learning, I know a lot about substance use disorder and the disease of addiction um and the risk factors that put people at a at a higher risk of becoming, you know, um addicted to substances. And obviously there's a genetic component, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

There's trauma that kiddos experience, uh, mental health, um, you know, anxiety, depression, a way to cope. And so I I didn't necessarily have any sort of genetic alcoholics in my family per se. Um, but I I did have a sufficient enough ACE score, which is an adverse childhood experience. Um and I turned to substances to change the way that I felt because I didn't like what was happening at home.

SPEAKER_01 5:05

Oh yeah. That's kind of a that's a story of a lot, you know, so many people. And people think, oh, you know, you have to have had addiction in your family, but no, pain causes addiction as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

Absolutely. And um when I talk with people about stigma, you know, um, I hear, well, you made the choice to have that first drink, you know, you made the choice to to use substances and and the answer to that is yes, right? So how can we do more upstream prevention? How can we educate educate parents and kiddos, you know, to to not ever have to go down that road? However, because of my risk factors, right, um, my invisible line, and that's the problem, is it's invisible, right? So we don't know where it is. I don't know which drink is gonna set me over that line or substance or whatever. And so I was just more susceptible. And so while I did choose to take the first drink and the first drug, um, then the drink and the drug took me and I was gone.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Yeah. And some of that is fundamental to ultimately forgiving yourself. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Oh yeah, that's that's a lot of work. There's step work for that.

SPEAKER_03 6:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like years and years.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Yes. Yeah. Well, with a with a good sponsor, someone to help, you know, help you get down to the causes and conditions and clean up the wreckage of your class, then it hopefully shouldn't take years and years.

SPEAKER_01 6:23

Some people's wreckage is a little worse than others, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

You know, you when when you see people that come in, uh um and when you talk to people, you always see there's a different level of hurt in in people's faces. And it's it's like you can see it in their eyes, but it's really inside of their heart, right? Because and especially when you're talking about young people, um it's just so prevalent now. It's painful to watch it.

unknown 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Uh we do a lot of work uh with the uh with some foster programs here and uh some of those kids were just really locked down.

unknown 6:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

And uh you've seen it. Um so can I ask you a question? So you you've been sober a long time. Um is it a lot to ask you if uh like what was what was a ri what was the the day, the moment that turned you around, that turned you clean? Um, like that made you like, you know what? I'm done. How bad was it?

SPEAKER_00 7:17

I can yes, and I know exactly when that moment was. Uh I my parents had let me come home to do some laundry. I'd been running and gunning, you know, uh for a long time. They were out of town. Uh and it's I don't even know why they would trust me to come into the house, but they're like, come on, do some laundry. And um, I ended up having a$75,000 or$75,000 warrant that I I didn't know about. And they broke down my parents' door and we they literally trampled our white picket fence as they came into the house and dragged me out. And I was like, don't let the cats out. Like that's all I cared about, right? My mom's gonna kill me. And you know, God bless my parents. I never um the joke is like, thank God Alan never got a hold of them because they just enabled me right to the very end. And um, they bailed me out one more time, one more time, and that's um, you know, 10% of 75,000. That's money they'd never get back. But in that moment of desperation, um, you know, I was sitting on my front porch and I just said, God, if you're real, God, if you're real, help. And that was it. It wasn't, you know, help me get out of this, help me, you know, knock it on paper, help me, you know, not get out of these charges, whatever. It was just help, I'll do whatever you want. And in that moment, that's when I don't necessarily know if it was a white light moment, but it was in a in a space that I found peace and was like, okay, I'm willing to do something different. And um, you know, um, the way that my higher higher power like uh reveals himself to me. I mean, it's different for everyone, but for me, it was um huge. He he opened every door for me to get the right lawyer in front of the right judge, in front of like everything, the right treatment center, the the right advocates at the the treatment center that was able to um help me and set me up for success. So when yeah, I can I can keep going. Yeah, no, no, it's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

That's kind of what we're aiming for. We want to see where where your pain was because you are not the only one that has it like that, right? We're not the only ones, we're not alone. Yeah, um, there's people listening uh to this show that uh um they're thinking, I did that, I remember that, that was me. And some people are still in addiction, still in that moment, still there, and they're getting to hear that anybody can get past it. You know, you just have to, you know, you have to really want it and you have to feel it in your heart, like, you know, today I want to be done.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yes. And uh and and I spot sorry, I don't mean to interrupt you. There are moments of clarity, and I think that's really important, um, especially in the work that you do and and we do, um, to be able to reach these people when they have that moment of clarity. But that's really what it is. It's just a moment. Um, and then what do they do moving forward? And so for me, you know, I was able to have momentum, get into treatment, get taken to a 12-step program, you know, say yes to all the things that I was asked to do. Um, because in my belief it's not for people who want it or people who need it, it's for people who do it. It's very action-oriented, you know. Um, I could I could pray all day long and say, you know, take this from me, but I know for me, this is just all my opinion, but God can't steer a parked car. And so I need to, I need to do something, you know. Um, but I remember I was, they had moved all four of my cases from three different courthouses into the main courthouse, right? The federal courthouse or whatever. Um, and the judge, he, you know, I was looking at 14 years in prison. And um I never thought in my life, because I'm I'm an only child. We literally had a white picket fence. We're in like anyhow, like, yeah. So I was like, how did I get here? How did this happen? Um, and the judge looked at me and uh, you know, the the he sentenced me. He said, Okay, I'm gonna sentence you to three years in prison. And and then um, well, that was the DA's recommendation. And then he stopped and I could, I could literally, this is the God moment for me. He said, You know what? I see something different in you. And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_02 11:15

All right, tell me about it.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah, and and he goes, you know what? I'm gonna give you one chance and one chance only. He goes, I am going to give you a um uh I'm gonna set aside that sentence and I'm going to let you do all these other things. Um, but just so you know, if I see you back in my courtroom, you're gonna do 85% of those 14 years because one of those um felon use is a strike. And so um he overturned the DA and he gave me an alternative sentence. And and it was extreme, it was extreme, but I was willing to jump through any hoop at that point. And so it was um 12 months at a treatment facility. It was paying back$22,000 for restitution for harms costs. Um, it was, you know, my DNA was on file. I had to take classes, I was on high control probation. Um, and then it was 720 hours of community service.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

That is a lot.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

That's a slog.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, but but I I mean I yes. And so I was like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Yeah, but but that moment resonated with you, and you're like, wow, here it is. Big opening.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yes. And I would say the the only difference is because um I was open and willing. Um, I was surrendered to a higher power at that point. I didn't even know what it was. I did not have any sort of um religious upbringing, nothing, not really. Um, and so it was completely new. I didn't I didn't have a a God personal to me or anything like that. But all of a sudden all these things started happening, and I was like, okay. So I just started saying yes.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah. You learned how to say yes, and and the uh the outcome was always it was what you needed.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 12:54

And the guides and the assistance was always there, just one step after the other.

unknown 13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Well, uh, we've been here, uh Wayne, with uh Melanie Croninger, and uh we're gonna take a quick uh we're gonna step out for just a second and uh we'll be right back. Yeah, you're listening to Reformed and Real on Radio Voice. Uh we're here with Melanie Croninger and uh Wayne Burke. Yes, indeed. So that was interesting, you know. We got to get to uh to know you a little bit. And uh um, you know, is is there anything that was in your past and in your addiction that you want to add to that?

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Um for anyone who has experienced the throes of addiction, um I think I think all all the feelings are the same. The despair and and you know, our stories look different of how we get to recovery, but I I think all those those those feelings of hopelessness and you know, um are the same. So nothing really to add on that end. Um but you know, I was on the break, we were kind of joking around that you know, I'm I'm so grateful that I got to to have that second chance and I haven't wasted it. I've been sober since my first 12-step meeting and um my nickname in the rooms was Five Felony Melanie. And so, yes, and that was just what I was convicted of. But the good news, and this is a story that is for me the hope piece, especially when I work with um, you know, previously incarcerated individuals, is um at five years or five or six years sober, um, every year since the judge gave me that second chance, um, at Christmas, I would send him a Christmas card and a detailed letter of all the things that I had done for the year and just thank him profusely. Um, and I did that every year. And so at five years um with without seeing him again in the courtroom, without him inviting me, um he said, I need you to come in here. And I was like, Uh-oh. You know, that's still to this day when someone's like, I need you to come in my office. I'm like, I'm getting fired. And but anyhow, so he invited me back to his courtroom and he's like, I need you to fill out all this expungement paperwork. Um, and I'm gonna push it through for you, no charge. And so he expunged my entire um record, everything, which is great.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

And that is a miracle, yes. And is that a rare thing? Very rare.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

And so and uh they don't have the same type of expungent here in Idaho. This is in a different location, so it's a little bit different, but I I am confident that there is nothing if if my higher power wants to keep like to get me somewhere to have me do something, there's nothing that's gonna keep me from it, and I just need to put one foot in front of the other and keep saying yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Keep saying yes, yeah, yeah. Criminal background means nothing when your higher power is in charge, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yeah, exactly. And I remember my first job, I was like 14 months sober and I was so nervous because I just we just finished wrapped up all the the court stuff and there I I got this job interview and they're like, Yeah, we want to hire you. We just need to do a background check. And I was like, Eee, oh no. And and so I called them and I was like, hey, just so you know, there's probably gonna be some stuff on there, but I just want you to know I'm on the straight, narrow, you know, good path. And uh the owner of the company ended up calling me into like, hey, will you come meet me in my office? And I was like, Oh great, he's gonna turn me down. And he's like, Hey, don't worry, I used to do cocaine, you're hired. And I was like, What? He's like, We all have a past. We all have. He's like, I'm gonna give you a chance. And that has literally been the story of my life. Wow, yeah. Yeah. Just just yeah, doors opening, doors opening. Yeah, from saying yes to God, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Funny how that works, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 17:06

It's wild.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

When um, so when you go through the recovery process, you put one foot in front of the other, get a job, you know, start to develop a track record of making good decisions and not the decisions that led you to addiction. At what point do you start to go into helping other people? When when does that happen? Your line of work is giving back. I mean, that's how that's what you're focused on now. So talk about the talk about the track of that. Talk about how that happened.

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yes, I I don't think there is ever a a time frame for someone to start giving back. I I think like if you are sober two days, you can help the person with one day, right? Like there's it's never too soon to start being of service. Um, and that's just what I was taught in the way that I I was grown up in the 12-step program and um, you know, clean house, you know, help others, that kind of stuff. Um and so the the joke or the I don't know, whatever, the the idea is like the first year is for free or the first year is for you. And then once you're in your second year of sobriety, that's when you really need to um be more other centered and really focus on helping others.

SPEAKER_01 18:19

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, because you gotta keep it or you gotta give it away to keep it.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, that's one of the big things, right? We keep what we have by giving it away.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 18:27

Yep, and that's how you kind of dissolve this idea of self, right? And selfishness.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Yeah, yeah. So do you find yourself in in your I mean in your job now, do you find yourself thinking about or talking to them about your past? And or or do you just are you just a totally different person? Because I kind of go through both of those, right? Sometimes I want to just spill the beans to everybody, and sometimes I just want to just uh just talk normal and not when I say normal, it's like normal to society, right? Um and not talk about my past.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

But um do you find that uh Yes and no. Um, I mean, if it like I will tell anyone who wants to hear it, if it's gonna help them, I I am not um embarrassed about my past. My past is my greatest asset. It allows me to help others um no no matter how far down the scale they've gone. Like I can I can be of useful and helpful. Um professionally though, yeah, I tell everyone.

SPEAKER_01 19:27

Me too. That's everybody that walks through the door. I'm like, yep, I'm a film.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but the and see the good news about that though is is because you have recovery under your belt and you've recovered, you are a changed person. That's so one thing I do want to highlight that I get to do in my job is um I co-lead a public health and safety team, fast for short. And what it is, it's a uh uh a collaboration of um like cross-sectors, like all these different um community partners that come together to help um identify like gaps and barriers that keep people overdosing both fatally and non-fatally. And so I have um my co-lead is actually um a lieutenant at the NAMPA police department. But we have probation and parole, we have the coroner's office, we have every law enforcement in Canyon County, we have, you know, paramedics, um, we have the hospital system, and then we have people from treatment, we have lived experience, we have harm reductionists, we have all these really neat people at the table. And um what I love is is being able to be that bridge. Um, because especially when I work with law enforcement, when people are are in their addiction, they you know, law enforcement, first responders see them on their worst day all the time, over and over again, you know, the same house coming back, whatever. And um, and being able to to bridge that, to say, hey, look, no, we do recover, you know, and we get to recover out loud and um to be that example to them. Like people have the ability to change their lives. And so being in this um task force, I guess you would call it, we are looking for ways to um to plug those gaps and to help people uh not die.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Right. So do you you find yourself defending people that are like when you're working with Damphi PD, defending people that are going through addiction?

SPEAKER_00 21:14

I I don't actually I have some fantastic partners at the table that already have a heart and a passion.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

They're on it with you.

SPEAKER_00 21:20

Yes. And so um, yes, and they're always um looking to learn, you know, learn more, educate themselves, um, understand. And and sometimes they they you know, they do. Their their job is to enforce the law, you know. Um, however, they wanna they want to be of service. They want to to protect the community by providing community resources to people who are struggling. And I just think it's really cool. But um, to be able to have a safe space where, you know, um we can talk about things, especially from harm reductionists or technically in the state of Idaho, it's overdose prevention strategies. You know, we don't say harm reduction anymore, but the idea is like, how do we keep people safe so that they don't die. Um yeah.

unknown 22:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:03

Is that a new element in law enforcement in your experiment? In your experience? Which part? Some of the education part, you know. Where they want to learn instead of where they're becoming changing, right? They're perspective. Yeah. I mean, you know, you can you can encounter a lot of people with empathy in law enforcement. I have no doubt about that. But as far as the education to deal with people on their worst day, addiction wise.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

I think there are some um areas, cities that are just at the forefront and doing it really well. And they're leading the charge and they're change agents and they're um enthusiastic and um enthusiasm is contagious. And so we have some really cool and I'm just gonna call them out the Namba Police Department. They are wonderful and they are really um setting such a great example of what that looks like of how to continually helping the community to to be different and to change and to have resources and to have that education is really cool.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

That's great in in my experience Wayne and I I think that that compassion and empathy and the in and uh the police force whether it's you know County Sheriff State has always been there. I have met I've met some cool police officers in my day and I and even in Orange County when I when I lived there um and when I was a juvenile especially um police officers that would pull us over with a case of beer and everybody's you know straight drunk as all heck driving down the cruise right and I remember they'd say hey you know what um I'm gonna follow you guys home and I'm telling your mom you know um so there's always been that I think that uh somewhere along the line addiction changed and uh some people some people just didn't know how to deal with it. Uh some police officers just got cold to it. And uh you know they're like oh we're you're going to jail you know I'm not gonna see this and then some of them were still like hey you know what this is just still a little Mario right here.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

It it could also be a matter of quantity right like like an epidemic. Burned out addiction yeah burned out and then maybe resources for law enforcement officers right you know access to social workers and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah yeah absolutely and it's it's an actual term it's called compassion fatigue and that's what happens when day in day out that's what you're dealing with it gets it's hard to to dig deep and find that compassion but that's part of the self-care and taking care of themselves too and so you know um helping them stay well as well. Yeah no that's I think that's that's really important.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

How do people who help law enforcement stay well stay well themselves?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

What's your self-care I I think it's I'm a little unique just because of the recovery background. Um my days start with prayer and meditation and then reading some specific pages out of a book and then a big big book you know like um that kind of get me straight because if I get to my head before God does in the morning I'm in trouble, you know? Um so I definitely I know how to do mindfulness and pause and self-care and soul care like all of that um is really important especially for the the high level of things that I get to do that God has blessed me with. But I can see it like as being a social work student, you know, meeting social workers um they just have a tendency and and that's part of the job is just wanting to help and and they just pour themselves out and pour themselves out but you can't you can't give from an empty well you know you can't pour from empty well or give from an empty cup you know and they're they're giving more than they're replenishing and so that's where we see a lot of burnout and and I I don't want that.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

So I would like to what do you recommend for managers of nonprofits?

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Well I don't know me and me.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Yeah I I think dedicating time you know being intentional about time that you take doing things that that replenish your soul whatever that is for my husband it's jujitsu for me it's you know obviously like the soul care and stuff like that but I love getting my hands in the dirt and gardening and and chasing around my chickens and taking my dogs to the dog park and hiking and fishing and camping all those different things um that really refill me um you know being around people who are headed the same direction as me having those deep meaningful connections because the opposite of you know addiction is connection and so making sure that I'm connected to people who are you know encouraging and you know all those things.

unknown 26:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

Well you know that's that's some good advice. Um Wayne you better take it me too yeah you're one to talk to I know I'm seven days a week and that's Wayne is too so some very good advice.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

So uh we're we're uh um one more question that I have for you so if you had any advice for somebody sitting out there right now listening to this show whether it's a family member or a uh somebody that's currently incarcerated because they're heroes too and or just a plain old community member what do you have to say about uh this subject I I I mean bottom line recovery is possible there is hope don't give up you know um there are there are great um resources in the community um different types of groups whatever that is um it's really hard to go it alone and I know that when I got here I had burned a lot of bridges um so I just threw myself into a a new group of people and was like okay I just believe that you guys believe and I'm just gonna do what you do and um that really that really helped and for for family members you know uh my parents prayed for me they they actually ended up finding God they were they moved went to a church found God and for seven years they prayed for me over my soul like every time they'd get a phone call they'd think I was in jail or dead right most of the time it's jail but um just knowing that um just keep keep hope keep praying you know um gosh the the other thing too is is when I meet people who are you know have felonies or have made you know poor choices or have a lot of wreckage all that kind of stuff I just say you know what um that like the world is your oyster like believe it or not I know you don't feel that right now but really there's nothing that you can't do. You know um I have and and I kind of share the story and I'll be really quick but when I was a couple years sober my my sponsor gave me this little rock that said yes on it like a little pocket rock and I was like oh does this give me permission to do whatever I want she's like no no no um she's like what I want you to do is keep saying yes to God. And so I did. Anytime someone asked me to be of service anytime that you know a commitment came up anytime that a person needed help I just kept saying yes and um my world started getting bigger and bigger and you know I would give God a little bit and he'd give me a lot and then all of a sudden I had this huge world and nothing held me back. None of my none of my felonies none of my you know any of my kerfuffles or anything anything the weird stuff that I got into right like like it just ended up being my best asset my greatest asset and um there's nothing that can keep me for something that God wants for me. The only thing that could ever get in the way is myself right so I just got to get out of my own way and let you know my higher power do this thing.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Well that's a the great story of redemption is available for everybody that wants it anytime they want right so there it is. Melanie thank you very much for uh being here with us today and uh you know it's been a great show and I really love hearing this the stories like this and I know Wayne enjoys it as well. We we've we've had some good times I always walk out with a spring in my stuff. Love that yeah thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Thank you both great.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Yeah thank you for joining us and uh thank you for joining Reformed and Real I'm Mario Hernandez and I'm Wayne Burt. We'll catch you guys next time